Warden filter.
May. 15th, 2011 04:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
buywithmeI'd like to make a formal argument against demoting Edward Nygma, because I think that many of the people voting for it are doing so impulsively and emotionally without considering the connotations of what they're trying to do.
I have broken my reasoning into three easily digestible sections:
1) Crime
What happened here was the steep escalation from what sounds like fairly childish pranks, into torture and retaliation. First of all, those of you comparing this to the kind of back and forth murder that the inmates participate in are being disproportionate. I do not think it was at all acceptable for Edward Nygma to steal from Arthas. However, under no circumstances is it the kind of thing that we would be discussing his demotion over, and it seems extremely unlikely that at this point Nygma foresaw it escalating to the level which it did. For this reason, I believe it should be considered context for what happened, rather than an indication of a larger problem.
The crime we should be considering here is that after being tortured, instead of being responsible and telling Arthas's warden what he had done, Edward Nygma hid what had happened and retaliated in kind.
What he did was very extreme, and frightening. However, what was done to him was also likely frightening and painful. I don't think any of us are at liberty to assume what his mindset has been throughout this.
2) Consistancy
The closest related event to this one which we've had to decide upon in recent memory, was when Tim attacked the Joker while he was in Level Zero, after killing Shego.
Examining these two crimes side by side:
Offense 1: The Joker got into a fight with Shego at the end of which she died and was restored to life in the infirmary.
Offense 2: Arthas tortured Edward Nygma for two days, at the end of which time he died and recovered alone.
Reaction 1: Tim went down to Level Zero, where the Joker was being punished for his crime, and savagely beat him.
Reaction 2: Edward waited for an opportunity to take revenge, and injected fear serum into Arthas's brain.
Response 1: Almost unanimously, we asked Tim to go on a probationary period, and spend some time in Level Zero
Response 2: The majority of people appear to be asking for demotion.
Problems: Why is it acceptable for someone who is physically capable to savagely beat someone who can't defend themselves, but not acceptable for someone who is not physically capable to attack someone through different means?
If Edward had been in a position to beat Arthas up, then would we have had no problem with that, and why?
Why is the difference in the punishments so great? I appreciate that the offense and reaction were both more serious in this case, but how can we let off one person with a slap on the wrist, and another person with immediate demotion?
Theoretical solutions: We operate under the impression that Tim running and beating up the Joker was somehow more noble than this, because he did it immediately. The belief that it is somehow more acceptable to torture someone in a fit of anger than to plan it out in advance, seems to permeate, as if anger somehow removes responsibility for what we do, any more than prolonged pain or trauma does.
There is also the idea, in my opinion, that people see what Tim did in a romantic view. That attacking someone who hurt your girlfriend is more noble than attacking someone who hurt yourself. So they forgive it more easily.
Finally, Edward Nygma is quite annoying. Tim is not very annoying at all.
3) Consequences
I believe if we are to make a decision which will significantly impact upon someone's life here, then we have a responsibility to interrogate the outcomes which the decision we make will have an the reasons why we are making it. This section of the post is devoted to these problems.
Solution 1: Demotion - This would make Edward Nygma an inmate. He would be assigned to a warden, and kept here until his graduation, or until he vanished into thin air. He would likely never fulfill the deal he made before coming here, and could spend many years as an inmate.
Function: When someone is an inmate... it is either because they are a dangerous person, who has hurt many people and would go on to hurt many more people without intervention, or because they have, over the course of their lives, been plagued by so many bad decisions and bad fortune that they need to be able to start over. The function of the Barge is not to punish us, it is to give those of us who need it a second chance.
Solution 2: Probation - For a specified period of time, Edward Nygma would be relieved of his weapons, responsibilities, and warden privileges. He would essentially be an inmate, but for the fact that the penalty would not be indefinite.
Function: If a warden is not fit to perform his or her duties, and/or not responsible enough to be trusted with the freedoms that being a warden brings, then probation prevents them from exploiting their power. It also acts as a punishment, because it is the potentially long term removal of privileges, putting them on a level playing field with the inmates, without actually forcing them into a program of rehabilitation.
Solution 3: Time In Zero - He would be locked up in level zero. Presumably for seven days.
Function: Punishment. Time in zero.
Maybe what Edward Nygma did was worse than the crimes of some inmates, but the difference is that as far as we know, what he did was not representative of the choices which he's made in his life. It was a terrible reaction to a terrible thing which happened to him. However, unless there is reason to believe that he would pursue his feude against Arthas further once the cycle of violence between them has been broken, I don't believe his problem is endemic enough to justify demotion.
I explained my opinions in Bruce Wayne's post, but I will repeat them here. I believe that he should be put on probation, possibly for a number of months, without weapons, control over any inmates, or warden privileges. During this time, I think that he and Arthas should be kept under some kind of monitoring to prevent this from continuing and if possible, one, or both of them should undergo some kind of psychological treatment.
Because, Comrades, that is the rational response. It correlates with our past judgments on people, and it might actually repair the damage that's been done here, as opposed to just causing more.
[There's a slight, awkward pause.]
That's all I had to say.
I have broken my reasoning into three easily digestible sections:
1) Crime
What happened here was the steep escalation from what sounds like fairly childish pranks, into torture and retaliation. First of all, those of you comparing this to the kind of back and forth murder that the inmates participate in are being disproportionate. I do not think it was at all acceptable for Edward Nygma to steal from Arthas. However, under no circumstances is it the kind of thing that we would be discussing his demotion over, and it seems extremely unlikely that at this point Nygma foresaw it escalating to the level which it did. For this reason, I believe it should be considered context for what happened, rather than an indication of a larger problem.
The crime we should be considering here is that after being tortured, instead of being responsible and telling Arthas's warden what he had done, Edward Nygma hid what had happened and retaliated in kind.
What he did was very extreme, and frightening. However, what was done to him was also likely frightening and painful. I don't think any of us are at liberty to assume what his mindset has been throughout this.
2) Consistancy
The closest related event to this one which we've had to decide upon in recent memory, was when Tim attacked the Joker while he was in Level Zero, after killing Shego.
Examining these two crimes side by side:
Offense 1: The Joker got into a fight with Shego at the end of which she died and was restored to life in the infirmary.
Offense 2: Arthas tortured Edward Nygma for two days, at the end of which time he died and recovered alone.
Reaction 1: Tim went down to Level Zero, where the Joker was being punished for his crime, and savagely beat him.
Reaction 2: Edward waited for an opportunity to take revenge, and injected fear serum into Arthas's brain.
Response 1: Almost unanimously, we asked Tim to go on a probationary period, and spend some time in Level Zero
Response 2: The majority of people appear to be asking for demotion.
Problems: Why is it acceptable for someone who is physically capable to savagely beat someone who can't defend themselves, but not acceptable for someone who is not physically capable to attack someone through different means?
If Edward had been in a position to beat Arthas up, then would we have had no problem with that, and why?
Why is the difference in the punishments so great? I appreciate that the offense and reaction were both more serious in this case, but how can we let off one person with a slap on the wrist, and another person with immediate demotion?
Theoretical solutions: We operate under the impression that Tim running and beating up the Joker was somehow more noble than this, because he did it immediately. The belief that it is somehow more acceptable to torture someone in a fit of anger than to plan it out in advance, seems to permeate, as if anger somehow removes responsibility for what we do, any more than prolonged pain or trauma does.
There is also the idea, in my opinion, that people see what Tim did in a romantic view. That attacking someone who hurt your girlfriend is more noble than attacking someone who hurt yourself. So they forgive it more easily.
Finally, Edward Nygma is quite annoying. Tim is not very annoying at all.
3) Consequences
I believe if we are to make a decision which will significantly impact upon someone's life here, then we have a responsibility to interrogate the outcomes which the decision we make will have an the reasons why we are making it. This section of the post is devoted to these problems.
Solution 1: Demotion - This would make Edward Nygma an inmate. He would be assigned to a warden, and kept here until his graduation, or until he vanished into thin air. He would likely never fulfill the deal he made before coming here, and could spend many years as an inmate.
Function: When someone is an inmate... it is either because they are a dangerous person, who has hurt many people and would go on to hurt many more people without intervention, or because they have, over the course of their lives, been plagued by so many bad decisions and bad fortune that they need to be able to start over. The function of the Barge is not to punish us, it is to give those of us who need it a second chance.
Solution 2: Probation - For a specified period of time, Edward Nygma would be relieved of his weapons, responsibilities, and warden privileges. He would essentially be an inmate, but for the fact that the penalty would not be indefinite.
Function: If a warden is not fit to perform his or her duties, and/or not responsible enough to be trusted with the freedoms that being a warden brings, then probation prevents them from exploiting their power. It also acts as a punishment, because it is the potentially long term removal of privileges, putting them on a level playing field with the inmates, without actually forcing them into a program of rehabilitation.
Solution 3: Time In Zero - He would be locked up in level zero. Presumably for seven days.
Function: Punishment. Time in zero.
Maybe what Edward Nygma did was worse than the crimes of some inmates, but the difference is that as far as we know, what he did was not representative of the choices which he's made in his life. It was a terrible reaction to a terrible thing which happened to him. However, unless there is reason to believe that he would pursue his feude against Arthas further once the cycle of violence between them has been broken, I don't believe his problem is endemic enough to justify demotion.
I explained my opinions in Bruce Wayne's post, but I will repeat them here. I believe that he should be put on probation, possibly for a number of months, without weapons, control over any inmates, or warden privileges. During this time, I think that he and Arthas should be kept under some kind of monitoring to prevent this from continuing and if possible, one, or both of them should undergo some kind of psychological treatment.
Because, Comrades, that is the rational response. It correlates with our past judgments on people, and it might actually repair the damage that's been done here, as opposed to just causing more.
[There's a slight, awkward pause.]
That's all I had to say.
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Private
Date: 2011-05-16 03:15 am (UTC)Private
Date: 2011-05-16 03:20 am (UTC)[God, if he doesn't recover. She's not allowed to pop champagne over that, is she? No, that probably wouldn't be proper.]